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Boundaries with Role Playing


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Junior Supervisor

Junior Supervisor

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Something I see often crossed is the real life application of things in role play, inherently okay in general role playing it is actually bad to do. 

We see this in ONI mesh in certain areas, real names when provided and other information gathered unconventionally (and most times not on purpose) but outside of ONI we've seen stolen valor, delusion of grandeur and other cases not rare at all to see like 8th grader syndrome.

It has also become a common thing where people are including you in their role play without your consent or context. Misconstruing the overall narrative and ruining the story telling experience. What are some things that come to mind when you read this post?  

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Junior Supervisor

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15 hours ago, lxx R3tr0 xxl said:

I'm just getting flash backs to that one time I was considered to be emotionally compromised when ever I did that fan fiction story of myself ?

In the defense of the person that said that had a valid argument you were vaguebooking/subtweeting others, you wrote a subliminal story essentially talking about someone behind their back – or at least that’s how people usually explain it reading that. I thought it was bad too, whether or not that's really breaching boundaries I would think its more of seriousness of role playing.

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Operative

Operative

  • [1] JUNIOR ENLISTED

With role playing it’s difficult to see where one begins and the other ends, especially in the essence of reality being intermixed with it all. For some it is difficult, as their role playing persona offers them the escapism they are craving, whatever the reason may be, they don’t want it to end so their persona bleeds into their interactions with others on a more personal level. For example I had a person tell me their whole life story, including their name and where they live, it was kind of surreal and they didn’t even realize they did it. What about you all, have you had any experiences similar to this?

- Shandy

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Junior Supervisor

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2 hours ago, Shandykidinkent said:

With role playing it’s difficult to see where one begins and the other ends, especially in the essence of reality being intermixed with it all. For some it is difficult, as their role playing persona offers them the escapism they are craving, whatever the reason may be, they don’t want it to end so their persona bleeds into their interactions with others on a more personal level. For example I had a person tell me their whole life story, including their name and where they live, it was kind of surreal and they didn’t even realize they did it. What about you all, have you had any experiences similar to this?

- Shandy

I actually think it can be clear cut. Like Dungeons and Dragons fantasy tabletop role-playing a forum based meta-gaming realm is doable with rules, character values and purpose. I think that staff can curate the environment but its malformed by personal problems. Something we always talk about in ONI is the narrative, we treat every clan like a book with its own narration by its clan leader, the chapters in the book representing age and the amount of clan members the pages it has. Every clan is a different book, every clan also has its own narrative. This story telling piece sets every clan apart even if they copied each other because the experiences are not the same. But they are not inter-changable, pages from one book can not be added to another. But one book can be based on another, meta-textually. If we seek out to establish rules, guidelines that everyone follows role playing can surely be easier for everyone to identify boundaries from clan to clan but also person to community.

In that it should be obvious that someone who role played a attainable status in one clan is not going to attain the same valued position in another. Some see it differently and many clans we compete with make exceptions to boast larger numbers at the expense of quality. The reality that this layer is on top of what already is the narrative and understanding role play is demoralizing every day. I come across people who think they are in ONI or have been lied to, think they are above and mistreat us because they do not understand the boundaries and do mix narratives with each other. A classic example is people who reference The ROE or Rules of Engagement and act as if it is a community standard when it is actually a living document that changes with every clan.

I've been watching and getting others to watch Evangelion again, an grandfather of science fiction escapism with themes on loneliness, inconsequential conflict and self-identity. Because of that I have been deep diving on escapism and the many themes it has, the problems the characters face. By not being able to know the true self of others and who they really are it creates a sense of ambiguity and inner anxiety that cannot be resolved with most gamers. By being unable to truly connect with people it makes people feel lonelier and hate themselves even more, making them vulnerable. This turns into half-hearted attempts to help others in search of approval in hopes that he/she will be loved by them. A character in this show specifically thinks that if he's altruistic it will give him meaning in life and remove his loneliness but it only showed the truth in his heart that he will love anyone if they love him in return and therefore he loves no one, using others as a means of escapism instead of loving himself in the first place. I see this often with youth who engage in clans. No one has any obligation to accept you simply because you exist and it should be left out of the narrative however conflicts with having a community, fostering and growing gaming buddies. Eventually the show itself leads to nihilism, I would give it a binge if you have the time.

/Coming back to the post

Focusing on escapism, what you said should be framed "as their role playing persona offers them the escapism they are craving, whatever the reason may be, they don’t want it to end so their persona bleeds into their interactions with others on a more personal level" I could have not put it in better words and the evidence is everywhere. There are a couple of sequences in how people role play, begin to and engage with the community. From Self Identity & Validation to Community, reputation and the Narrative or Realization of the clan.

None of this should be deeper than a group of people who want to play Halo together but it eventually developed that way when the games become a form of escapism. Which we know all desires of escapism is basically rooted in a hatred of reality and lack of self acceptance. By relying on others, indulging in desires or running away people are merely seeking an escape from reality instead of embracing it. Taking with them whatever problems they have in reality to the game and into the narrative. How we handle this is still a developmental thing, its something we study on what we can do to better peoples experience without breaking our narrative. It's inconsequential in a way. In the ways that work I see success, members committed fully to the clan in one example FOTUS, a clan of troubled children whom their leader which has a bad reputation (creating a fictatious story of sex traffiking, paying others to DDoS others and involved in child pornography, while simultaneously managing a music career with clear evidence of botting.) sees success in loyal members because while the leader is a bad person created an environment that promoted this escapism and harnessed it. All their members will change their gamer tags and follow him around however less active he is. Other toxic clans with age are like this, Marshal Goldpack and the Goldpack clan and UNSC Kurt 051 and the Highcom clan.  

In these egos and identities is the desire to have something of worth by following other peoples wishes and desires. People become frustrated when they follow orders that give them no meaning or pride because no one is around to appreciate their efforts. In writing this you made me realize that my original post is layered, it is packed with many ways to respond to then I initially intended. I'll probably make more threads around the above and ideas in the community, live examples with evidence thereof might interest everyone too.

Escapism and dreams are not good because we do not live in those dreams, you can only exist in reality and escapism is a relapse. It is an illusion and not a means of living. Identity can only be formed by existing, accepting reality completely. Happiness can only be sought when you accept the benefits and suffering of being alive. This is a hot take I have I wanted to share.

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Junior Supervisor

Junior Supervisor

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2 hours ago, ODST J Sechemet said:

I think getting personal information/accounts is outside of roleplay and should not be considered such.

I get what you are saying here but why?

Everyone in UNSC High Command all know each other by real name, everyone apart of the UNSC Security Council have met in person. We used these definitions people would otherwise know as role playing to meet and know each other, we share a different inclusive relationship because it cannot be understood as sometimes it supersedes our own rules. An example is how I code switch with enlisted, certain words just cannot be said because its against the rules to say. Certain topics used to also be reserved to 'command' in cryptic ways.

Personal information is inconsequentially shared with those you have a personal relationship with, the character you develop in ONI for role playing is you. You play yourself in a uniform and the universe we create around you. Story telling the Office of Naval Intelligence around you in different eras tied to games.

To challenge you, when you can should you? Doxxing has become a proliferate tool of the internet age. People feel empowered knowing more about others. When this is being weaponized against you what do you do? How do you define 'Intelligence' and its boundaries when it comes to clans. The conceptualization of how we interpret and apply it meshes this in at different levels, from getting to know each other and likes/dislikes to also competing with hostile actors, people that would post your information to leverage you and our community.

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(edited)
4 hours ago, Shawn4Japan said:

Everyone in UNSC High Command all know each other by real name, everyone apart of the UNSC Security Council have met in person. We used these definitions people would otherwise know as role playing to meet and know each other, we share a different inclusive relationship because it cannot be understood as sometimes it supersedes our own rules. An example is how I code switch with enlisted, certain words just cannot be said because its against the rules to say. Certain topics used to also be reserved to 'command' in cryptic ways.

I understand this part and you have a good point there.

 

4 hours ago, Shawn4Japan said:

To challenge you, when you can should you? Doxxing has become a proliferate tool of the internet age. People feel empowered knowing more about others. When this is being weaponized against you what do you do? How do you define 'Intelligence' and its boundaries when it comes to clans. The conceptualization of how we interpret and apply it meshes this in at different levels, from getting to know each other and likes/dislikes to also competing with hostile actors, people that would post your information to leverage you and our community.

What you say here is true, but I wish it wasn't that way. I personally think that some role-play goes too far on that aspect of gathering personal information on people and getting their accounts. I guess my reason for this would be that it's not necessary to uphold a Mil-Sim and breaches privacy, causing others to invest in VPNs.

Edited by ODST J Sechemet
typo
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I guess my reason for this would be that it's not necessary to uphold a Mil-Sim and breach privacy, causing others to invest in VPNs. Especially when people want to simply have a good time in a community and then get harassed.

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Field Agent

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9 hours ago, Shawn4Japan said:

I actually think it can be clear cut. Like Dungeons and Dragons fantasy tabletop role-playing a forum based meta-gaming realm is doable with rules, character values and purpose. I think that staff can curate the environment but its malformed by personal problems. Something we always talk about in ONI is the narrative, we treat every clan like a book with its own narration by its clan leader, the chapters in the book representing age and the amount of clan members the pages it has. Every clan is a different book, every clan also has its own narrative. This story telling piece sets every clan apart even if they copied each other because the experiences are not the same. But they are not inter-changable, pages from one book can not be added to another. But one book can be based on another, meta-textually. If we seek out to establish rules, guidelines that everyone follows role playing can surely be easier for everyone to identify boundaries from clan to clan but also person to community.

In that it should be obvious that someone who role played a attainable status in one clan is not going to attain the same valued position in another. Some see it differently and many clans we compete with make exceptions to boast larger numbers at the expense of quality. The reality that this layer is on top of what already is the narrative and understanding role play is demoralizing every day. I come across people who think they are in ONI or have been lied to, think they are above and mistreat us because they do not understand the boundaries and do mix narratives with each other. A classic example is people who reference The ROE or Rules of Engagement and act as if it is a community standard when it is actually a living document that changes with every clan.

I've been watching and getting others to watch Evangelion again, an grandfather of science fiction escapism with themes on loneliness, inconsequential conflict and self-identity. Because of that I have been deep diving on escapism and the many themes it has, the problems the characters face. By not being able to know the true self of others and who they really are it creates a sense of ambiguity and inner anxiety that cannot be resolved with most gamers. By being unable to truly connect with people it makes people feel lonelier and hate themselves even more, making them vulnerable. This turns into half-hearted attempts to help others in search of approval in hopes that he/she will be loved by them. A character in this show specifically thinks that if he's altruistic it will give him meaning in life and remove his loneliness but it only showed the truth in his heart that he will love anyone if they love him in return and therefore he loves no one, using others as a means of escapism instead of loving himself in the first place. I see this often with youth who engage in clans. No one has any obligation to accept you simply because you exist and it should be left out of the narrative however conflicts with having a community, fostering and growing gaming buddies. Eventually the show itself leads to nihilism, I would give it a binge if you have the time.

/Coming back to the post

Focusing on escapism, what you said should be framed "as their role playing persona offers them the escapism they are craving, whatever the reason may be, they don’t want it to end so their persona bleeds into their interactions with others on a more personal level" I could have not put it in better words and the evidence is everywhere. There are a couple of sequences in how people role play, begin to and engage with the community. From Self Identity & Validation to Community, reputation and the Narrative or Realization of the clan.

None of this should be deeper than a group of people who want to play Halo together but it eventually developed that way when the games become a form of escapism. Which we know all desires of escapism is basically rooted in a hatred of reality and lack of self acceptance. By relying on others, indulging in desires or running away people are merely seeking an escape from reality instead of embracing it. Taking with them whatever problems they have in reality to the game and into the narrative. How we handle this is still a developmental thing, its something we study on what we can do to better peoples experience without breaking our narrative. It's inconsequential in a way. In the ways that work I see success, members committed fully to the clan in one example FOTUS, a clan of troubled children whom their leader which has a bad reputation (creating a fictatious story of sex traffiking, paying others to DDoS others and involved in child pornography, while simultaneously managing a music career with clear evidence of botting.) sees success in loyal members because while the leader is a bad person created an environment that promoted this escapism and harnessed it. All their members will change their gamer tags and follow him around however less active he is. Other toxic clans with age are like this, Marshal Goldpack and the Goldpack clan and UNSC Kurt 051 and the Highcom clan.  

In these egos and identities is the desire to have something of worth by following other peoples wishes and desires. People become frustrated when they follow orders that give them no meaning or pride because no one is around to appreciate their efforts. In writing this you made me realize that my original post is layered, it is packed with many ways to respond to then I initially intended. I'll probably make more threads around the above and ideas in the community, live examples with evidence thereof might interest everyone too.

Escapism and dreams are not good because we do not live in those dreams, you can only exist in reality and escapism is a relapse. It is an illusion and not a means of living. Identity can only be formed by existing, accepting reality completely. Happiness can only be sought when you accept the benefits and suffering of being alive. This is a hot take I have I wanted to share.

I want to discuss this further in a different thread and try to not make this one about escapism. 

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Operative

Operative

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Shawn, thank you for the perspective as well as a different way of looking at the role playing community. 
 

Serin, that sounds like a good idea, if you want I can get the ball rolling on a escapism post. I’ll try to make it user friendly as opposed to research based, though if some value that, I can provide literature if requested. I have papers I can provide though retract personal identifiers.

- Shandy

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Operative

Operative

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I’ve always wondered this, though wanted to see if any of you have had experience with this; I’ve seen LARPing in city parks and open fields, though wanted to know if this is an extension of role playing, or is it an entirely new experience altogether? In short, where does role playing end and become not just a means of expression but more of a alternate personality/potential obsession?

- Shandy

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Senior Operative

Senior Operative

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I feel like LARP is acceptable especially if in a designated area under supervision of admins. such as Airsoft fields where the host companies make scenarios such as grohzna raid. they use live rifles firing blanks and all sorts of crazy shit. like tanks. i feel like the line is more internal than external for split personality and Roleplay. no one who was on NATO team during Grohzna raid should leave thinking they are actually nato soldiers. same with internet roleplay and so on. @Shandykidinkent

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Field Agent

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On 1/8/2020 at 8:02 AM, Shawn4Japan said:

Something I see often crossed is the real life application of things in role play, inherently okay in general role playing it is actually bad to do. 

We see this in ONI mesh in certain areas, real names when provided and other information gathered unconventionally (and most times not on purpose) but outside of ONI we've seen stolen valor, delusion of grandeur and other cases not rare at all to see like 8th grader syndrome.

It has also become a common thing where people are including you in their role play without your consent or context. Misconstruing the overall narrative and ruining the story telling experience. What are some things that come to mind when you read this post?  

When you say "real life application of things in role play" what do you mean? 

Outside of ONI and even inside we have seen stolen valor. I think that Stolen Valor is something intentionally done with malicious motives for attention, credit or other. It is as a personal choice someone made to copy the military and less of a delusion from role playing. 

9 minutes ago, Jason L Lewis said:

I feel like LARP is acceptable especially if in a designated area under supervision of admins. such as Airsoft fields where the host companies make scenarios such as grohzna raid. they use live rifles firing blanks and all sorts of crazy shit. like tanks. i feel like the line is more internal than external for split personality and Roleplay. no one who was on NATO team during Grohzna raid should leave thinking they are actually nato soldiers. same with internet roleplay and so on. @Shandykidinkent

Jason's example here that in Airsoft those same people should not be leaving the field/venue thinking they are actually soldiers applies very much so to the internet. It is black and white in if you are acting or are actually in the military. 

 

 

 

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Operative

Operative

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Interesting thank you both for your explanations and further information on the matter, I now know more about role playing than I did before. Thank you! When I get around to it, can I also populate this thread with various communities of role play I see in my community?

- Shandy

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