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Ranking system going into Infinite


B1ue Team Sucks
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since we are going to changing to a squad based structure I was wondering if we going to take off the time requirements for rank up and go more merit based. like after the person does X amount of activities the squad lead can put in the promo and the people above the SL depending on the rank can take a vote if they get promoted or not so its not also locked behind one person accepting it.

The point of having someone and it could be anyone put in anyone's rank if they are lower and anyone above the rank higher could accept it just doesn't really sit well a lot and could be used for unfair rank locks like someone could sit at E5 for 6 months and never get ranked up because no one higher then them was active enough to put it in or had a grudge towards that person. a more consul approach could be a more checks and balance system moving forward so no one person has complete control over someone else progress. I get that the SL would still be the one who has the power to put in the promo but accepting it could go more favorably and not so much a do i like this person or not. 

are we also going to be rank locking people based off of position. For example if they never wanna take a leadership position are we just gonna cap them at specialist or let them still climb ranks? Are we also gonna rank lock job titles like if you're an SL you can only make it to Staff Sergeant. 

Are we also only going to Have limited spots  per platoon and expand on a case by case bases and are we recruiting for your own squad or when we get a recruit are we throwing them into a pool of other recruits and they get slotted after BCT depending on what squad needs people that are active?

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On 11/5/2021 at 12:32 PM, B1ue Team Sucks said:

since we are going to changing to a squad based structure I was wondering if we going to take off the time requirements for rank up and go more merit based. like after the person does X amount of activities the squad lead can put in the promo and the people above the SL depending on the rank can take a vote if they get promoted or not so its not also locked behind one person accepting it.

The point of having someone and it could be anyone put in anyone's rank if they are lower and anyone above the rank higher could accept it just doesn't really sit well a lot and could be used for unfair rank locks like someone could sit at E5 for 6 months and never get ranked up because no one higher then them was active enough to put it in or had a grudge towards that person. a more consul approach could be a more checks and balance system moving forward so no one person has complete control over someone else progress. I get that the SL would still be the one who has the power to put in the promo but accepting it could go more favorably and not so much a do i like this person or not. 

are we also going to be rank locking people based off of position. For example if they never wanna take a leadership position are we just gonna cap them at specialist or let them still climb ranks? Are we also gonna rank lock job titles like if you're an SL you can only make it to Staff Sergeant. 

Are we also only going to Have limited spots  per platoon and expand on a case by case bases and are we recruiting for your own squad or when we get a recruit are we throwing them into a pool of other recruits and they get slotted after BCT depending on what squad needs people that are active?

I'm going to just try to answer this here in the questions I see but FAQ should not be a diabolical essay by essay rhetoric, clear concise questions and answers. This forums for more new members after all, putting out any drama out there is up to you but not necessarily helpful or inviting for more conversation.

  1. I was wondering if we are going to take off the time requirements for promotions and go more merit based.
    No, there is no discussion in removing time in position, time in rank, or time in clan requirements. If there are enlisted members that join and within 1-2 weeks want to do more than be an E1, it is their responsibility to volunteer to do jobs around the unit. Jobs will more than likely be available especially to those eager to do them. 
     
  2. Are we going to be rank locking people based off of position?
    I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here so my best answer right now is No. Minimums are the best, at maximum it does not matter. A Major「O6」can lead his own squad. In your example, no if a Staff Sergeant meets his rank requirements he can get promoted. Better ways to check everyone have already been talked through, just not practice for whatever reason.
     
  3. Are we also only going to have limited spots per platoon and expand on a case by case basis and are we recruiting for your own squad or when we get a recruit are we throwing them into a pool of other recruits and they get slotted after BCT depending on what squad needs people that are active?
    Long winded multi- questions, but a good one.

        Short answer   : Yes, Platoons have limited spots. Platoons are only going to grow when enough leaders show interest. As for recruiting we haven't discussed if there is going to be a "Training Battalion" or other formation before people join a unit. I think its a good idea but we simply have not talked about it enough to include it into ONI. It also comes with a logistical challenge that we just have not overcome in easier formations.

    Long boring answer: Yes, Platoons have limited spots. Platoons and higher level organization are no longer going to have extra people without an assignment. Once a Platoon HQ is full the next Platoon is created or members move up to the Company HQ. Platoons are only going to grow when enough leaders show interest, but also when enough leaders are present. Recruit formations limit the mobility of actual units when we want to use members that want to participate in the community. It isolates the recruit from being a more valuable member and contributing from day 1 instead of day 30. The discovery of any recruit formation existing came up recently when looking at the Marine Corps Drill Instructor MOS. I think its something for discussion in how it can be implemented well but until those conversations happen the topic stands still as the current status quo.

    Recruits, recruited into slots/billets that are open and train with their fire team and squad.

    While this is a role play, the balance between fun inclusive community and realism to the virtual reality world we connect through vs. military simulation total organization rivaling current militarists is a constant contest. To what ONI is, a experience offered to members through our documentation driven community, its best to not over organize and prevent natural people and gamers just wanting to play together. How much do we want to organize for excellence, what exact training is there possible to make sure a member is ready. Some of these things weight differently to everyone and the most important part is realigning everyone to the same standard.

 

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10 hours ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

since we are going to changing to a squad based structure I was wondering if we going to take off the time requirements for rank up and go more merit based. like after the person does X amount of activities the squad lead can put in the promo and the people above the SL depending on the rank can take a vote if they get promoted or not so its not also locked behind one person accepting it.

Honestly I cannot see us doing this. Especially since we still have the 2/3 requirements only needed to be completed for a promotion I see no real reason to make it easier again. Especially since you can basically already bypass the timeframe up until E4 really when they need a recommendation from a CO or be in the clan for 4 months (in the marines).  The time frame is nice as it stalls people from shooting up the enlisted ranks in a matter of 2-3 months in my opinion.

Also back when the first time we talked about the promotion system if i recall it was originally attend 25 and 50(?) activities and your complaint was that it was unrealistic and too difficult which is why with the revamp for the current ranks are the way they are now. 

 

10 hours ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

The point of having someone and it could be anyone put in anyone's rank if they are lower and anyone above the rank higher could accept it just doesn't really sit well a lot and could be used for unfair rank locks like someone could sit at E5 for 6 months and never get ranked up because no one higher then them was active enough to put it in or had a grudge towards that person. a more consul approach could be a more checks and balance system moving forward so no one person has complete control over someone else progress. I get that the SL would still be the one who has the power to put in the promo but accepting it could go more favorably and not so much a do i like this person or not.

I mean the current system allows anyone to put in the promotion and as long as they are a higher rank they are approved. So i do not see how people can be "rank locked". I mean a nice example and of myself basically when ned first joined i did not like him at the time. You put a promotion in for him and morris approved. No matter the opinion I had of him he still got promoted. 

Now that we have 2 more officers as well the activity problem to peoples promotions being approved shouldnt really be an issue. 

10 hours ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

are we also going to be rank locking people based off of position. For example if they never wanna take a leadership position are we just gonna cap them at specialist or let them still climb ranks? Are we also gonna rank lock job titles like if you're an SL you can only make it to Staff Sergeant. 

 

Specialist is really only a ODST thing from what i understand but again looking at there ranks the furthest in the marines anyway that someone would be able to climb without leading is probably E4 and even then its a bit odd as to reach e4 one of the requirements is to lead a fireteam (but thanks to the 2/3 requirement system they could make it). A lot of the time anyone who doesn't want to lead is happy to stay put where they are Jonesy and Valentines are great examples again. 

As for a squad leader i see no reason to rank lock them especially since (similar to the razor) the squad leaders would be the main force for generating activity and training personnel currently we have an E5 and a E6 squad leading on the razor and they will most likely be squad leaders later on as well in infinite. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

Also back when the first time we talked about the promotion system if i recall it was originally attend 25 and 50(?) activities and your complaint was that it was unrealistic and too difficult which is why with the revamp for the current ranks are the way they are now. 

yes, you were asking someone who just joined to attend 30 Calendar events which equaled 1 event a day for an entire month. which at that point the time requirements make more sense given its more of waiting than playing. im talking if you join like 10 events at lower ranks (E1-E3) you can still get rewarded for showing up and not feel like you just not have to wait out a month per rank. running X amount events seems more seasonable than waiting out a month going forward. its more important to be active than being here for a long time.

 

3 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

I mean the current system allows anyone to put in the promotion and as long as they are a higher rank they are approved. So i do not see how people can be "rank locked". I mean a nice example and of myself basically when ned first joined i did not like him at the time. You put a promotion in for him and morris approved. No matter the opinion I had of him he still got promoted. 

This was more in reference to me when I sat at E5 for 6+ months because you had to put in my promotion and for my promo to get accepted Shawn would of needed to accept it. 

 

3 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

Now that we have 2 more officers as well the activity problem to peoples promotions being approved shouldnt really be an issue. 

you basically have 1 new officer which is Areo. Maple is on LOA for an unknown amount of time and I am lost on how her got accepted as an officer while on LOA with no return date.

 

3 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

Specialist is really only a ODST thing from what i understand but again looking at there ranks the furthest in the marines anyway that someone would be able to climb without leading is probably E4 and even then its a bit odd as to reach e4 one of the requirements is to lead a fireteam (but thanks to the 2/3 requirement system they could make it). A lot of the time anyone who doesn't want to lead is happy to stay put where they are Jonesy and Valentines are great examples again. 

Specialist did also apply to the marines a while ago but probably got removed since it never really got used. It was more looking at you would cap out at Specialist if you didnt wanna lead so you still could be an NCO without the leadership responsibilities and if they decided they wanted to lead they can switch to a corporal and go from there. 

 

3 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

As for a squad leader i see no reason to rank lock them especially since (similar to the razor) the squad leaders would be the main force for generating activity and training personnel currently we have an E5 and a E6 squad leading on the razor and they will most likely be squad leaders later on as well in infinite.

  It does not make any sense to Have an E7-9 leading a squad from a squad structure point of view which we are moving into. you rank lock Team Leads at E5 and Squad Leads at E6. If they wanted to go higher they would need to take on a more staff role. I get that will rank lock people for hitting a max rank but to hold a stucture we need to hold limitations on ranks or the ranking structure is not going to work.  I get that its wroks on the razor but we are not keeping the razor going forward and new systems will be in play that the current systems in play may or may not work with the new system in the future.

 

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1 hour ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

It does not make any sense to Have an E7-9 leading a squad from a squad structure point of view which we are moving into. you rank lock Team Leads at E5 and Squad Leads at E6. If they wanted to go higher they would need to take on a more staff role. I get that will rank lock people for hitting a max rank but to hold a stucture we need to hold limitations on ranks or the ranking structure is not going to work.  I get that its wroks on the razor but we are not keeping the razor going forward and new systems will be in play that the current systems in play may or may not work with the new system in the future.

This is where I am getting confused blue. You are advocating for people not be held back by the promotion process but you are advocating for people to be rank locked when a squad leader for what im assuming is lore based approach?

As soon as you "rank lock" someone they are demotivated and may not see a point in playing as alot of people like the achievement side of ranking up. 


By the time someone reaches E8 or 9 there should be someone willing and able to replace them and then they move up the structure also. On the SoF the structure is quite clear for everyone to move up and through the 45TH MB. 

Regiment Leader
                              Battalion Leader
                                                           Company Leader
                                                                                       Platoon Leader
                                                                                                                 Squad Lead
                                                                                                                 Fireteam Leader

If by the time they are E7, E8 and E9 and they dont have replacements so they can move up i would be questioning them to why and see whats going on inside the platoon to why the cannot replace one person in a leadership position. 

1 hour ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

This was more in reference to me when I sat at E5 for 6+ months because you had to put in my promotion and for my promo to get accepted Shawn would of needed to accept it. 

I mean the reason i didn't do it was solely based of your merit and attitude towards myself, the ship and clan overall but even still you became an ODST which you applied for and osman approved it. So you still managed to move through the ranks even with me disapproving you. But this is a long time ago that for you anyway seemed to be an issue. Now i cannot imagine it being an issue.

 

1 hour ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

Specialist did also apply to the marines a while ago but probably got removed since it never really got used. It was more looking at you would cap out at Specialist if you didnt wanna lead so you still could be an NCO without the leadership responsibilities and if they decided they wanted to lead they can switch to a corporal and go from there. 

I mean what's the difference in being an E3 and then saying "hey i want to lead" they get the promotion to E4 and go from there. Fairly sure Rin used to be an E4 or E5 just sole based on the skill and activity she had with the clan. Again can you clarify why you want there to be an E4 rank people can push for to assume the NCO title but not have NCO responsibilities? 

 

16 hours ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

since we are going to changing to a squad based structure I was wondering if we going to take off the time requirements for rank up and go more merit based.

Sorry just to go back to this part. people have been promoted before based on Merit. Recently Ned has to E3 and previously again Junior Enlisted have done for various reasons mainly being recruitment or hosting activities/stepping up when times were tough. Fire 2the Flame is a great example although she hadnt been in the clan exactly 5 months i thought it was necessary to promote her to E6. But she is the only Senior enlisted to have this as again it was extraordinary circumstances. But the point is having someone promoted for merit tends to be because they went above and beyond their current rank and position. 

The nice thing about the current structure it basically shows you where they should be at their ranks and what they have to achieve to become a squad leader in order to be a E6 (they need to lead a squad for a month). What I am getting at is they already are being promoted for doing what they are meant to do in they're position. 

For me like I said a merit based promotion should really only happen if they have went above and beyond not when they are doing everyday responsibilities. 

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5 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

mean the reason i didn't do it was solely based of your merit and attitude towards myself, the ship and clan overall but even still you became an ODST which you applied for and osman approved it. So you still managed to move through the ranks even with me disapproving you. But this is a long time ago that for you anyway seemed to be an issue. Now i cannot imagine it being an issue.

more or less i got demoted to a different with a different title and if didnt cared about the clan i wouldnt have been so active getting the razer off the ground. Nemesis and Areo and back me on my activity. 

 

5 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

This is where I am getting confused blue. You are advocating for people not be held back by the promotion process but you are advocating for people to be rank locked when a squad leader for what im assuming is lore based approach?

As soon as you "rank lock" someone they are demotivated and may not see a point in playing as alot of people like the achievement side of ranking up. 


By the time someone reaches E8 or 9 there should be someone willing and able to replace them and then they move up the structure also. On the SoF the structure is quite clear for everyone to move up and through the 45TH MB. 

Regiment Leader
                              Battalion Leader
                                                           Company Leader
                                                                                       Platoon Leader
                                                                                                                 Squad Lead
                                                                                                                 Fireteam Leader

If by the time they are E7, E8 and E9 and they dont have replacements so they can move up i would be questioning them to why and see whats going on inside the platoon to why the cannot replace one person in a leadership position. 

im more brining up the point theres no point having at some point 15 E5s if we we dont support it. with the downsizing and restructuring to a squad based system. Are we having limited seat per rank so ranks matter more. we cant have 10 people in platoon staff. that makes zero sense if a platoon size is 3 squads of 12. it makes zero sense to have E7-E9 as SLs if thats a more senior staff positions. 

 

5 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

Sorry just to go back to this part. people have been promoted before based on Merit. Recently Ned has to E3 and previously again Junior Enlisted have done for various reasons mainly being recruitment or hosting activities/stepping up when times were tough. Fire 2the Flame is a great example although she hadnt been in the clan exactly 5 months i thought it was necessary to promote her to E6. But she is the only Senior enlisted to have this as again it was extraordinary circumstances. But the point is having someone promoted for merit tends to be because they went above and beyond their current rank and position. 

The nice thing about the current structure it basically shows you where they should be at their ranks and what they have to achieve to become a squad leader in order to be a E6 (they need to lead a squad for a month). What I am getting at is they already are being promoted for doing what they are meant to do in they're position. 

For me like I said a merit based promotion should really only happen if they have went above and beyond not when they are doing everyday responsibilities. 

wIth the current official ranking structure there is no support for this.  whatever happens on the razer only happens on the razer.  a squad based structure needed limitations for it to work eventually you are going to have so many NCOs its not going to make sense. our input of new people coming and going out is not going to be able to support our structure. the razers intake and how they are going to get spread out after the transfer people are going to most likely reracked for the new system. This is basically going to be a vc conversation at this point youre not getting what i mean. 

 

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6 hours ago, Harry Cramb said:

I mean the reason i didn't do it was solely based of your merit and attitude towards myself, the ship and clan overall but even still you became an ODST which you applied for and osman approved it. So you still managed to move through the ranks even with me disapproving you. But this is a long time ago that for you anyway seemed to be an issue. Now i cannot imagine it being an issue.

you wanted people to apply for it because Flatline put in an ODST form and you wanted more Reazer pride in the ODSTs and gun it for leadership so Flatline didnt take over the ODSTs. I put it in just like the 5 others who did and we all got accepted like 3 months later with no warning. I just woke up one day and I was an ODST. Osman pretty much accepted everyone who put one in at the time. I was "leading" a ship by the time I got accepted for ODSTs. Did you really think anyone really talk to the people who got accepted and asked if they wanted it still even after so long of waiting?. If you really think I hated this clan so much then why was I so active with lobbies and on the website. why did you think i cared when i got transferred from the 34th. you had such a skewed view of me because i had a personal grudge towards you because you fucked me on on a promo i rightfully deserved after resurrecting the razer while you were busy with life which there is no problem for. you can literally ask anyone from that time period and they would say i was active and carrying the ship. You hate(ed) so god damn much you couldn't get your god damn head out of your own ass to realize without me you would have fucking nothing right now because of your personal life and could not put in the same amount of time as me. 

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25 minutes ago, B1ue Team Sucks said:

you wanted people to apply for it because Flatline put in an ODST form and you wanted more Reazer pride in the ODSTs and gun it for leadership so Flatline didnt take over the ODSTs. I put it in just like the 5 others who did and we all got accepted like 3 months later with no warning. I just woke up one day and I was an ODST. Osman pretty much accepted everyone who put one in at the time. I was "leading" a ship by the time I got accepted for ODSTs. Did you really think anyone really talk to the people who got accepted and asked if they wanted it still even after so long of waiting?. If you really think I hated this clan so much then why was I so active with lobbies and on the website. why did you think i cared when i got transferred from the 34th. you had such a skewed view of me because i had a personal grudge towards you because you fucked me on on a promo i rightfully deserved after resurrecting the razer while you were busy with life which there is no problem for. you can literally ask anyone from that time period and they would say i was active and carrying the ship. You hate(ed) so god damn much you couldn't get your god damn head out of your own ass to realize without me you would have fucking nothing right now because of your personal life and could not put in the same amount of time as me. 

you had the razer for about a year and you sat there with gamer and objectively failed getting the razer active. It took the the 34th Infantry Brigade Transfer of Morris, Jason and I to get your mess of a ship of the ground. come to think of it Morris left and Jason was super busy with working at Sonic that he couldn't put in the time like me to catch up.  I am the foundation of the razer. Tsar could of been there but he was put in charge of a ship for Halo 5. If I absolutely hated the clan i would not of wore the uniform. I never got out of it once. I would of been just as inactive as you at the time. I would just denied the transfer and reped the 34th I.B. uniform or nothing at all. I would of never never made an account on the site and be active on it. I would of not made a roster. I would not tried to organize the razer in anyway shape or form. it would of been a wreak.  I made the ship run smoothly and active. you have problems with me because I challenge and question ideals and not blindly conform since you were an officer. I was on the ground actively engaging with the crew and learning what they liked and didn't like and tried to conform things to them so they feel like they are being listened and acknowledged.  

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